Room recording - Apr 09, 2025
===
Kelly Duggan: [00:00:00]
Welcome to The Love What You Do podcast. I'm Kelly Dugan, former HR executive turned career coach and personal brand expert. And I'm here each episode helping to give you tips and strategies to discover your unique value, leverage your personal brand, and create a career you love. Welcome back to the podcast everyone.
I am so excited to have a guest with us here today. I know you're used to just seeing me. Um, but today we are welcoming Daryl Twitchell [00:01:00] to the podcast. Welcome, Darrell. So happy to have you here.
Daryl Twitchell: Kelly and hello everyone. I'm happy to be here.
Kelly Duggan: Yes, absolutely. So Daryl is the founder and managing partner of Silver Ridge Advisors, which is a management consultancy that he actually started in 2008 and Daryl, you and I have known each other now for a number of years.
I can't believe how long it's been actually.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah, we
Kelly Duggan: Um.
Daryl Twitchell: ways now we think about it.
Kelly Duggan: I know, I know. We crossed paths at WWE,
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah.
Kelly Duggan: um, you came in to do some management consulting specifically, uh, in the HR and culture space. Um, and we just had a ball getting to build out all sorts of different people strategies and, um, grow the function at WWE over a number of years and even got to build a building together in that time.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah, that
Kelly Duggan: Yes.
Daryl Twitchell: I believe is the first time we started
Kelly Duggan: Oh my gosh.
Daryl Twitchell: yeah, going on
Kelly Duggan: That is
Daryl Twitchell: that've.
Kelly Duggan: Daryl. [00:02:00] That is, that's scary.
Daryl Twitchell: And I've seen you. I've seen you grow and blossom, and hopefully you've seen me as well, but we'll see.
Kelly Duggan: Vice versa. For sure. And you know, I just, I have to tell everyone that you've been such a mentor of mine on my personal journey from going from a corporate career into working in HR consulting now and career coaching. And you were one of the first examples that I had in my life of, you know, someone who was actually.
Being successful and being their own boss in a consultancy role that I had been so close with. Um, because, and as I've shared on the podcast before, I had always known that I had this inkling to want to go into entrepreneurship, to go into consulting, to go into coaching. But it was kind of this thing where I was like, but nobody actually does that, right?
Like that. How, how are people actually successful doing that? And then I got to meet Daryl and hear about what we're gonna be talking about today, which is how you [00:03:00] built SRA, um, and really built a career that you love. And it was inspirational to me to know that that was something that I could do too. So I, I'm very excited to dive into this conversation today.
Daryl Twitchell: nice of you to say. I mean, I, it is definitely something that, uh, well, when I tell the story, you'll hear that. It's not something I had planned from the get go, uh, that, that my life would look like. Right now we're working in SRA and and doing this kind of work, but, um, fortuitously it kind of worked out that way.
And I do get to meet a lot of wonderful people like you in the job that I do now. Um, but specifically about the kind of work that we do. We
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: as colleagues to the companies that we work with. And so hopefully in 2016 when I came in and I started working with you, yeah, I was an outsider initially, but I think very quickly that sort of external perception disappeared, I hope.
And, and we were, I
Kelly Duggan: Oh yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: we were all seen as colleagues working together. Um, really with no difference between being an outside consultant versus being an employee of the [00:04:00] company.
Kelly Duggan: You're so incredibly right, and I think that is more rare than you would think when you're working with outside consultants. I think that's one of the things that you and your team really bring to the table is that being able to embed culturally and just on a personal note, to get to know people and, and really feel like a colleague and one of the things you just shared around how you never thought you'd be at this point, we're going to, we're gonna hear the, the whole story of how you got to this point. But I, that's one of the things that I share with my career coaching clients all the time. I say careers only make sense looking in reverse.
Like you have no idea how every decision that you make and every step you take is going to shape where you end up going. Uh, and. Until you're at the end and you're looking backwards and you're like, wow, had this not happened, it wouldn't have opened to this door to send me to this opportunity. And that's where I completely geek out of the o over all of these things.
Um, and why I'm so excited to talk to you [00:05:00] today around your career story and how you broke into consulting.
Daryl Twitchell: Why don't I give you the sort of, uh, quick story of what happened to create SRA and then I'll go back further and give you the context of, of how that came about. So
Kelly Duggan: sounds awesome.
Daryl Twitchell: in 2008, I was working in a very different kind of role, uh, at a company called Lehman Brothers, which many of your listeners I'm sure have heard of. Um, was a well known investment bank, right? Global Bank.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah,
Daryl Twitchell: I
Kelly Duggan: I.
Daryl Twitchell: a. Principal investor, meaning I was running a fund at the bank using the balance sheet of the bank to invest in different kinds of asset managers and other, other investment, uh, and financial companies. Things were going very well.
Stock was going, um, higher and higher every, every day. Um, until one day when I was called in and we were notified actually the business was gonna be shutting down. So in
Kelly Duggan: Wow.
Daryl Twitchell: as everyone may recall, if we go back in history, there was a fateful day when [00:06:00] the, when the, when the company, uh, went bankrupt. I was one of the many people carrying a box out the door with all of my belongings. Uh, the same morning I came in with no notice at all. So if you remember around that time, Merrill Lynch had a similar thing happen. Bear Stearns had a similar thing happen, a number of other companies were all going through this in 2008.
And so
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: a great time to say, Hey, I'm gonna go and interview and find another job, especially in financial services. And so. When I started comparing notes that same day with some of my previous colleagues from different jobs, we all came to realize, you know, maybe we should try to take our fate in our own hands and see what happens. And what I mean
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: that we hung up a shingle, and the shingle was essentially to say to the world, we are consultants available for hire. Now, that wasn't something we had planned to do for years. This was just
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: thing. 'cause we realized finding a traditional W2, [00:07:00] you know, two job was gonna be difficult, so let's try to find a way to sell services and do project work until
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: came back and things were looking better.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: fortunate. So I got together with a couple of my former colleagues. We ended up getting a client quite quickly because, at the time, banks were taking tarp money. I don't know if that rings a bell, but essentially it was a, it was a short term bailout of a bank so they could get more
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: their feet and then return the money back to the government. But
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: in order to return the money back, these banks had to cut costs. So the very
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: we got was to work for a bank. Cutting costs, not the most exciting, not the most exciting kind of work to do, but something that was very needed.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: that project went very well. And ever since then, in 2008, all the way until today, we've been continuing to do project work, but we've changed the story. We've changed the focus. We now do things that are more exciting, like helping [00:08:00] businesses grow, helping companies get into new markets, launch new products, um, invest in new opportunities, um, improve their performance. So a lot more positive forward thinking, you know, uh, type project work. Uh,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: one thing we mentioned earlier, you know, we're not just like any other consulting firm that might hire a bunch of, uh, really newly minted undergrads outta college and say, okay, now we'll solve the world's problems. Um, all of our team members are more experienced and we've, we've had of grit under our, our nails 'cause we actually had to run some businesses and get, you know, get into the operations of things and we bring that to bear.
And so.
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: different in that sense. So we'll go and work with a company like WWE or with you and essentially can speak from experience as opposed to just speaking from intellectual philosophy of how you should run a business. No, we've actually done these things and so we can, we can, we can help you, [00:09:00] know, uh, do the same for your company. And we also also understand that, you know, certain things are really hard to do. And so we're not gonna just say, go do that. We're gonna help you go do that. So
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: that, that's kind of how it all came about. It wasn't something that I had planned to do. Um, but thankfully 2008 was a pivotal, pivotal year for me, uh, and really kind of gave birth to it.
Kelly Duggan: take, take me back to that day when you're leaving Lehman Brothers with the box, right? Like that's such an iconic image, I think, especially for those of us who remember 2008. Um, but what were some of the things that were going through your mind before you got to this stage of. Hey, I think this consulting thing might work out.
Daryl Twitchell: So it's interesting on, on the day of, um, I was riding Metro North from Connecticut into the city and checking my Blackberry. Remember those[00:10:00]
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. Yes, I do.
Daryl Twitchell: and I got a message from my immediate supervisor saying. Um, when you get in, stop by my office. I wanna talk to you about something and
Kelly Duggan: Oh,
Daryl Twitchell: that
Kelly Duggan: Everyone's favorite message to get on the way to work.
Daryl Twitchell: Stop by my office. Okay. So at first I didn't think anything of it, but then as I started thinking, I realized, wait, this is the very first thing he wants me to do in the morning. so it started as I was walking from Grand Central to the office, I started thinking, okay, this feels like what I've heard happened at Merrill and other companies just a few weeks
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: when I got into the office and I saw the mood of the atmosphere of everyone in there, I, I knew immediately before anything was spoken to me. So that morning the experience was quite sort of intense. but the moment I left, which was maybe two hours later with all my
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: in one box, um, it's kind of liberating in some respects.
'cause I knew now that, okay, I don't know what my [00:11:00] future's gonna bring, but I know that I'm not doing that anymore.
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: choices and I have opportunities. Yes, they're scary because there's so much uncertainty, but the one thing that I really got out of it was, I can't just rely on company to be loyal and faithful and say, this is where you should put all of your time and energy because we will always be there for, no, they they, this one wasn't.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: it really woke me up to say, how do I get a little more control over my lives? I don't know day
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: how my career is gonna be. It's gonna go, I'm not planning it out for 30, 40, 50 years, but maybe there's certain things I can do to give me a little more control. And so
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: kind of how I embarked on this.
Alright, maybe we can actually start a firm and do some professional services work and I can choose my clients and I can choose how intense I want that work to be. Hopefully making enough money, hopefully having fun at it, at least I know I'm not [00:12:00] just dependent upon. You know, an organization.
Kelly Duggan: Oh my gosh. I think you hit on such an important topic there, because I know a lot of people that I talk with today. Feel that of I've given so much of myself to these organizations and they don't have my back. And I, and things have changed so much in the particularly corporate space, but I just think career wide in that you don't go and work for one company and just expect to be there for your whole career.
And I think rightfully so, there's a lot of people on the employee side who have. Almost, I wanna use the word resentment and frustration towards, well, why am I gonna put myself into this job so much? Um, but one of the lessons that I, I hear from what you shared, you know, whether or not when you're leaving, when you're in a job search situation, whether or not you're gonna go start your own [00:13:00] consultancy or you are gonna choose to seek another job.
I think one of the things you shared that's so important is that. People, we need to each look at our career from an entrepreneurial perspective, right? And know nobody is going to take care of us. We work for ourselves regardless of who is paying us. And I think when you can approach job search or opportunity finding with that mindset, with whatever you go and do, um, it's an incredible, it, a incredibly liberating experience.
Even if. Starting your own business is not for you. Um, I, I think that mindset is, is very beneficial.
Daryl Twitchell: One and one thing just to, know, I can, I can imagine some people say, well, that's a lot of risk. How can you take on that risk? But just to give you a little more history here, so, um, the very first job I had outta college, so I, was a arts and sciences major. I majored in history and international relations.
What am I gonna do with that? Right. I thought
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: the world, and lo and [00:14:00] behold, I actually left and I didn't do anything with it. I actually went into consulting, so
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: in consulting. Um, my first job was at a Bain Bain spinoff called Corporate Decisions. Today it's called Oliver Wyman. Um,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: I got grounded in the fundamentals of how to be a consultant. Um, that for a couple years. I quickly realized that, you know, I'm being asked by CEOs and other executives. For opinions and advice on things I just didn't understand. Like I didn't understand
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: I never took that in college.
I never, you know, I didn't take finance and there's some certain things, certain, uh, you know, base, uh, tools that I needed to get. And so I went to business school after doing that initial consulting role. Um, and so I went to Yale and then after that decided I wanna actually build on what I did with consulting. I didn't wanna do just strict consulting, and so I went into
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Strategic
Daryl Twitchell: planning, which is essentially internal consulting at a company.
Kelly Duggan: [00:15:00] Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: I went to American Express and there for a while. What I'm illustrating is I didn't just take a risk and just kind of chart a new path or go another way. I, I, I wanted to build on something I had already a, because it was easier to tell the story and I could. Spin it into a, a, an interview and maybe a position, but also B 'cause you're building on something, you know, even if it's not a great experience or something that really challenged you, you know it, you went through it. so
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: I took my consulting experience, turned it into strategic planning that then led me an American Express into starting new ventures for the company. Investing in them. And I started to get into private equity and investments, and that's what brought me through a series of other companies. To make a long story short, I went to Citigroup. I worked at two venture capital firms, and then ultimately ended up at Lehman Brothers in investments. So
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: again, I didn't plot this path out from day one, graduating college, but I kind [00:16:00] of built on things as I went. And then when Lehman Brothers finally closed. And I said, I wanna start a consulting firm. I actually was going back to something I knew already. It wasn't
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: let me just pick something outta thin air and try it. It was,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: do I take something I've done and give myself that sort of independence and ability to control my life a little bit? So I think
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: looking backwards and picking on something you've done no matter where it's from, and using that as the springboard for the next thing is, is. Is real, is really the way you can get more confidence and self-assurance when you're doing it, but also building something, you know?
Kelly Duggan: I absolutely love that. I, I, it almost feels like a Venn diagram, right? It's like there's where you are now, there's where you wanna be eventually, where do the two overlap and. That's your next step, right? You might not be able to go from point A to point B in one jump, but where can [00:17:00] you, how can you leverage the experience you have to get your next experience to lead to the next experience?
Um, that I, I think that's such an important way to think about it.
Daryl Twitchell: but you can de-risk it a little by pulling on something in your Venn diagram that you already and know how to do, or can at least talk to.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. Did you ever encounter imposter syndrome throughout your career at any point?
Daryl Twitchell: All the
Kelly Duggan: Talk to me about that.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah. I mean, well certainly when I was right outta college and I was, my first few years as a consultant being asked, what do I think about the balance sheet of the company and what's the balance sheet? I don't, I don't even know. Uh, let me tell you what I think about the balance sheet of the company. Yes, I definitely
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: then. And I think as you go further and further along in your career, you get into higher positions of. leadership and managerial authority and all that. I think it's just human nature, right? Even if you
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: the best at [00:18:00] what you do, the world changes. And if you're not always thinking about, okay, what's the change that I now have to keep up with? feel like
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: I'm not necessarily the rep best person to ask about that. Or how did I, how did I end up in this seat, you know, in something that's actually shifting underneath me. Like, you're always gonna feel that.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
I don't think
Daryl Twitchell: that's bad. I think that's, that's something you just have to acknowledge and then use it as a, as a incentive to try to sit back in a quiet room away from everybody and figure out, okay, how do I strengthen my confidence in whatever that particular area is? Um,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: it's just picking yourself off and saying, I can do it. Right. You're not gonna go get another degree. You're not gonna go read another book necessarily, but maybe. I think just
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: to say, you know what? I've done it this long. I can keep doing this. And a lot of this is just expressing confidence and, knowing how to even admit when don't know something, then that really builds up your, or [00:19:00] reduces your imposter syndrome you,
Kelly Duggan: I know the power of when you reach a point in your career where you can stand behind, you know what? Let me get back to you on that. Or, I'm not the best person to ask, but I'll find the answer. It in some ways can be interpreted as a weakness, but it, I think is the most powerful moment, and you're, when you're, you have reached the threshold of being less worried about how other people are going to perceive you and more worried about.
The just being right and getting the truth, and that's, I think, a real developmental milestone in a, in a career path for sure.
Daryl Twitchell: and I think
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: around you who might be asking you these hard, hard questions and giving you that sense of imposter syndrome, if you come back to them and say, you know, let's try to figure that out, or Let's break it down, or Let's work on this together, or, I actually don't know that, but I know how to get the answer. Those kinds of ways of managing situation, they're gonna appreciate that too.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.[00:20:00]
Daryl Twitchell: So
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: it's just learning that skill too, to be able to. Take control and be able to handle it as opposed to faking your way through it or running away, which in some cases we all wanna do.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah,
Daryl Twitchell: right. So
Kelly Duggan: I'm, I'm completely with you though. I really do feel, I, um, I did a podcast on imposter syndrome a few episodes back, and I have been really sitting with this revelation that I've had recently of like. I think we've got it wrong in assuming that imposter syndrome is a bad thing and it, because if you never have imposter syndrome, are you ever challenging yourself?
Like, are you ever pushing yourself to go further than where you are today? I don't know how growth can happen without that feeling of I've gotten over my skis. You know, it's a, it's scary when it happens, but it's almost a sign that you're moving in the right direction.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah. You know, I've, I've gotten to know this professor at where I went to college, um, and over [00:21:00] the, over the last few months we've been talking about this a little bit because he's a really accomplished tenured professor, one of the most popular at the university, and, and yet he feels it.
Kelly Duggan: Wow.
Daryl Twitchell: one of the things that we talked about is. Certain, certain careers or certain disciplines, you're always trying to find the next big thing. So like
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: why does something occur? Let me go try to figure it out. Let me, when you're trying to do some discovery, don't know the answer. And all you know though is sort of method to try to find the answer or questions to ask, or trying to stay curious and keep looking for it.
But. don't have the answer until the end. And so that breeds imposter syndrome for certain, for that particular kind of job. 'cause like, I don't
Kelly Duggan: Wow. Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: on the right path? I don't know why me, you could just spiral. Right? And yet,
Kelly Duggan: Oh my gosh.
Daryl Twitchell: in that particular example, you have to just acknowledge it and say, no, no.
That's part of what this is all [00:22:00] about. I'm, in a discipline or a career where I'm constantly trying to look for the next thing. And I don't know where it's gonna come from. And I don't know what it is, but.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: question whether you're the right person to, to look for that.
Kelly Duggan: That's the true and the, that is true confidence, right? Like being able to, in the face of the uncertainty, knowing, alright, I don't know the answer, but I'm the right person to find the answer. And that's okay. Um, that, that takes confidence. And that's I think one of the purest definitions of, of confidence.
Uh, one of the things we talk about a lot on this podcast with coaching clients is this concept of unique value. And what you as an individual bring to the clients you work with, the employers that you work for, and how that attribute and or combination of attributes sets you apart from your competitors.
I. Uh, so I [00:23:00] describe unique value as kind of this mixture of your strengths, your personal values, and the experiences that you've had, and all three of those things put together create this unique DNA of who you are and what sets you apart. Uh, I know I'm putting you on the spot here, but when you think about, like, throughout your career, I imagine you've had to leverage your personal unique value, um, not only to land clients, but also to make your way through those early parts of your career, through that Venn diagram that we were talking about.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah.
Kelly Duggan: do you think your unique value is that you're, you're bringing,
Daryl Twitchell: my. I can give you
Kelly Duggan: I.
Daryl Twitchell: clients. You can ask them.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. There we go. We could do that. I've got some, I've got some guesses already.
Daryl Twitchell: I mean, you know, it is a question I've asked myself too. 'cause as, as I'm watching others either give a lecture or handle a meeting or do something right, I, I'm admiring what they're doing and I start to see
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: unique value. I don't see it in myself as clearly as I see it in someone else, [00:24:00] but I don't know.
One thing that I, I, I hope is true is, um, I've been told that I'm resourceful. In the sense that I can help break down a ambiguous problem and figure out how to approach it, get some answers, get some more clarity, and leverage
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: people or tools that I might have access to. So
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: by kind of resourceful. Um, but I also have been told that I, you know, I, I tend to say less and listen more. Um, and so I think that maybe those two things would be part of my unique value. of course then imposter syndrome comes in and I wonder, but put that aside. Um, but it, but you know, I think, I definitely do think, I try to like, figure out situations before I try to answer or speak to the situation. Um, and then when it [00:25:00] comes time to to it or trying to solve something. I try to break things down into, into bite-size morsels of what we can actually try to solve or accomplish or figure out, because a lot of the times, whether it's in business or just kind of organization, right, you have these amorphous kind of problems and you don't really know where to begin and you can freeze, right?
And so I try to just like, well,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
take
Daryl Twitchell: a step back. Let's break it down and see where we can get started. And then once you're started, you're moving. Things actually start
Kelly Duggan: Yeah,
Daryl Twitchell: momentum and you get to the end. So I would put those two things in. I don't know. Do you agree seen me
Kelly Duggan: I, I was just gonna say to echo your point of. It's easier to observe others' unique value sometimes than it is to self-reflect on your own. I would 100% agree with everything you just shared as being part of your unique value. I think those are all things that really stand out as someone who's had the pleasure of getting to work with [00:26:00] you, um, and there's such importance in being able to reflect and articulate on, articulate those things in ourselves.
Um, how do you. Utilize that kind of self-awareness when you are trying to connect with clients or connect with your network more broadly.
Daryl Twitchell: Um, so if it's somebody I know, then it's. Year, right? Because I think they may have seen some of that, but I do meet new people all the time, or I'm referred from one person I know to another person. I guess I just try to not let the situation make me nervous and treat any
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: interaction or meeting somebody or dealing with an abstract problem as, um. Almost like a puzzle that you're doing with a friend and you're trying to figure it out together, right? I know that all,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: settings are different. You can have very tense interactions with people. You can have very challenging kind of [00:27:00] environments. You can have big age differences. There's a lot of stuff that can get in the way and create noise,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: but fundamentally, we're just people.
And so I just try to with somebody as if we're. I wanna say equals or colleagues working together towards a common goal. And it kind of,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: me at least, it reduces the stress, it reduces the, uh, tension that I might feel, and it becomes more of a, an opportunity where I can just be myself and listen to them and try to give them, uh, thoughts that will help again, break down an, uh, an issue into something that's smaller.
And so. I don't know. It doesn't always work, but that's at least how I try to try to do this. So, for example, just to give you another example, I was, last week, I was in a room of maybe 60 people, all of whom were highly accomplished in their particular fields. And we were advising, we were an advisory board to an individual.
The individual was [00:28:00] asking questions You just get silence in the room because I think everyone was immediately trying to size up, okay, who's gonna be the first to speak and what am I gonna say? What are you gonna say? And
Kelly Duggan: Oof.
that
Daryl Twitchell: sort of tension, you can just feel right when I just said it right there.
You can probably feel it. You
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: to find a way to ignore the tension. 'cause if you just think about the tension, you're never gonna think about, well, what am I gonna say? Or How am I gonna say it? Or how am I gonna engage with these people? You're just focused on the wrong thing, so very quickly. Once some people started at, uh, saying a few things, I added to the conversation and now you're in it and now it's moving. And you feel like that tension kind of like disappears
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: In that, in that scenario or that situation, I realize just trying to the things that are giving you kind of a sense of. I don't know, inferiority or nervousness, just try to ignore that particular feeling and focus instead on, let me just say something and just [00:29:00] get going on this process and start engaging with these people. 'cause we're all people again. Just, just get going and that, that breaks it down for me. So that's kind of how I deal with it and try to bring my, you know, my style to something.
Kelly Duggan: I love that and I love how you actually like utilize your unique value in these conversations. So you're not just talking about it, you're showing it even in your initial interactions with people, which I think is a phenomenal tactic, you know, to be, I mean, sounds so meticulous, to call it a tactic, I think it becomes more second nature.
Um, but when you're really grounded in your unique value, it becomes such a part of who you are that. It becomes not only the topic of the conversation, but it drives the actual conversation.
Daryl Twitchell: And the interesting thing
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: case that I just gave you, every single person was probably thinking the exact same thing I was,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: [00:30:00] gonna be the first one to speak? What am I gonna say? What's this person gonna say? Right? You're not alone. I.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: You're not the only one in that room feeling that, and that's probably in whatever the situation that you're in, very similar, that everyone's
Kelly Duggan: I.
Daryl Twitchell: same thing.
Even if it's just a one-on-one conversation, that person's probably thinking, how do I get to know you? How do I impress you? So just acknowledging that this is something that we're all feeling and using your
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: to try to break through or you know, I think that will help a lot with just all of us dealing with, um. Again, I'll bring it back to like, you know, sort of an inferiority or imposter syndrome kind of, uh, circumstance.
Kelly Duggan: A hundred percent. I, I tell people all the time, you have just as much to give as you have to gain half the time. We just don't know how to, how to articulate it or we haven't sat down long enough to really define it for ourselves. And that can be a huge turning point in our career. 'cause we're [00:31:00] always gonna have these moments where we're feeling inferior, we're feeling the imposter syndrome.
Um, but I think being. Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: one thing that, one thing that's interesting too is I think the most successful people that I've observed fun at what they're doing. And I don't mean just like making light and jokey about everything. I mean, they actually are enjoying what they're doing and, making others in the room enjoy it as well, because they're sort of setting the tone and, know. Everyone sort of feeds on each other in that sense. Those are the people I, I see in, in whatever circumstance as being very successful. And
Kelly Duggan: I love that.
I try
Daryl Twitchell: to do that too. It's not
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: you're certainly, if you're like, puzzling over a really hard problem, like, how do I fund doing this? But you try to make it a little bit more lighthearted in some sense so that, so that it's not just, you know, Very stressful. [00:32:00] Uh,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: weight of the world on your shoulders. Like that's where I think a lot of us tend to go try to like up from that.
Kelly Duggan: I love that, and I think it's like letting your unique value be your compass to the type of work that you should be doing. Because I mean, there's just some types of work that could be amazingly fun for some people. Could be watching paint dry for other people, right? Like, I mean, Darrell, I've worked on a PowerPoint with you at like seven 30 at night trying to solve a problem and had like the best time and, um, maybe we're nuts.
I don't know. But it,
Daryl Twitchell: up the
Kelly Duggan: it.
Daryl Twitchell: the boxes. I mean, come on. We're
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And trying to figure out, okay, how do we break this down in a way that it's gonna make sense?
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah.
Kelly Duggan: Um, I, I think we both share personalities that find joy in that, where there are people who would think we are crazy for finding joy in that. But the challenge is whatever it is for you.[00:33:00]
Find what that thing is and then find a way to make money doing it. Um, I think is a, a way that I, I would guess why those people are more successful. It's not just that they're having fun and doing what they're doing so that they found the thing that allows 'em to have fun. Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: And they're getting more out of it than just career success. They're getting actually,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: they're not just enjoying the end game. They're enjoying the process of getting through it. Right. 'cause,
Kelly Duggan: 100%.
Daryl Twitchell: they, they really like. Hopeful.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. Yeah. So do you love what you do today?
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah, I do. I mean, for so many reasons. One of which is just that I see so many different projects and people and companies, you know that by the nature of consulting, you're always working on something new and whether even if it's the same company, like when we were working together at wwe, we did 30 some projects together,
Kelly Duggan: Yep. Yes, we sure did.
Daryl Twitchell: Um, but, you know, switching gears and working on different clients in different industries, I, I would not see this [00:34:00] level of variety working in, well, certainly Lehman Brothers or working in one company, you know,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: for the same period of time. So thing I love is, is the variety. thing I
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: actually helping create things.
So. Some people say, well, if you want to, if you wanna leave a legacy, you know, you should build a building or you should like engineer something. And then there's a thing, right? There's an actual thing. But there's also a thing when you create a company or you create a product in the company or if you remember, one of the things that we did when we were working with WWE was to launch the XFL and to me
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
That
Daryl Twitchell: was hugely exciting because we're creating something that will touch thousands of people, Give them joy, but also create an opportunity for more football players, more media coverage, more and more everything. It was just actually creating something from scratch. Nothing, it didn't[00:35:00]
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: Um, so to me, I
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: the reward out of building and, and, and launching something brand new, uh, that other people can experience. So I, I see that all the time in what I do now. It's not, it's not all at scale of the XFL necessarily, but. Product, services, businesses, all that.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, you're getting to create something that wasn't there before, which is so much, there's so much joy in that.
Daryl Twitchell: that's right. Yeah.
Kelly Duggan: I've got one more question for you, Daryl, and that is, you know, you, I think that what I love about your, uh, Lehman Brothers story that you shared with us is that you took something that was, I mean, life quite literally gave you lemons, right?
Like that is a really rough situation, and you were able to make lemonade out of them. You found a path that allowed you to be successful and, and get you where you are today. Um, you know, a a lot of our listeners might be in [00:36:00] different parts of their career path and some of them may be in a place right now where they are very much in the lemons.
Right. And, um, contemplating what to do next, where to go from here. What advice do you have for people either around their mindset or some actions that they can take if they find themselves, um, in a. In a period of career transition right now.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah, so, um, that's a great question and, and you know, always the skepticism. I think even I had it, I still have it sometimes when I hear of, oh, well if you just try this, it'll work. It's great. I. Not always. Right. And, and
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: majority of the time it's not, not a straight wine. You're gonna try something many, many times and maybe it'll then take, so what I would say is if you're in a, in a situation where you're among all the lemons and you need to get out of this sour situation, you're not alone. Right. I think, I think that's something we have to remember a lot. There's people [00:37:00] around you who are also thinking about what else they could do, and maybe you should just spend time with those individuals, friends, colleagues, people you meet on, you know, through, through, uh, different organizations. Try to find people who you could talk about ideas with, and maybe they'll wanna do it with you,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: truly not alone, right?
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: You could
Kelly Duggan: start something
Daryl Twitchell: with somebody or with other people, or you could. Have a conversation with somebody and they might become your first client or customer, or they might become somebody that is a junior person to you who can give you more leverage and help you do what you wanna do next. just don't know. So when I, when I started Silver Ridge, I think I mentioned, the very first thing I did was I called up all my former friends and colleagues who were in similar situations and said, now what? Not because I wanted to start a consulting firm with 'em, but because I was like, okay, they're in the same circumstance. Let me
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: them because they're gonna, they're [00:38:00] experiencing it too.
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: through those conversations, very quickly we got to the, what can we do about it? Hey, we, we have similar experience with consulting. Let's try this out. Let's do it together. It's shared risk. I'm not in this alone. And it, and it, for me, it kind of built some momentum and it gave, made it more. Uh, not acceptable, but just easier to do, right? As opposed to me saying, I'm just gonna dwell on this myself and figure out myself. What am I gonna do? And then let me see if I can just hang up a shingle on my own.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: a lot harder to do. And don't have the mentorship of your peers, you don't have the collegiality and other people of, know, rooting for you and working together on it.
I, I think if you spend time. With people, you know, and explore what your options are, even if they're crazy ideas, a lot better than just trying to sit down and think about it on yourself, on your own. Um, and, and you know, your networking sessions, for [00:39:00] example, great
Kelly Duggan: Yes.
Daryl Twitchell: that. I mean,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Daryl Twitchell: we should talk after this, but there were some conversations that occurred during that when I went to one that have carried on since.
So did I
Kelly Duggan: Oh my gosh. I'm so happy to hear that.
Daryl Twitchell: It proved it up. Did I go to this session thinking that was gonna happen? No, but that's what happens. So if you're in a circumstance where you're trying to get some lemonade out of lemons, I think you should try to talk to as many people as you can. Just simple as that and be
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: Talk about what you're thinking, talk about what you would like to do in your future and just see where it goes. 'cause you really just never know.
Kelly Duggan: Oh, you're so right. And I, I, I, I so believe in the power of networking from the perspective of how you described it, of you don't go in looking for something, you are just connecting with people for the joy of connecting with them. And you never know what that next conversation is going to hold.
Um, and [00:40:00] action breeds opportunity. And I think one of the most valuable actions you can take is connecting with people. Talk to them, meet with them. Be open to helping them as much as they're open to helping you or even more so. And, uh, opportunity will grow
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah,
Kelly Duggan: more that you are out there talking to people.
Daryl Twitchell: and it takes energy. It's difficult. You gotta pick
Kelly Duggan: Geez.
Daryl Twitchell: gotta do it. Put yourself out there. You might, you know, I'm more of an introvert, but I, I do it. And you find that because you do it and you see that it goes somewhere, that's the reward, and that encourages you to do it again and again and again. me,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: does, it does work. Right. So.
Kelly Duggan: It does, and it can feel like, it can feel like you're planting seeds that aren't going anywhere. And then all, all of a sudden, three, six, and I, you know this in consulting business development better than anyone, all of a sudden you've got a garden in the backyard and you're like, what? How did this happen?
Um, and it was just from that perseverance.
Daryl Twitchell: In fact, some of our clients are actually friends. [00:41:00] It just, I
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Daryl Twitchell: them a project, it's just because I know them and they know me, and it just kind of worked out. So you just know, don't know where things are gonna come from.
Kelly Duggan: So true.
Daryl Twitchell: And you
Kelly Duggan: Darrell. Thank you so much.
Daryl Twitchell: that you can stay in touch with over these many, many years.
Kelly Duggan: Oh my gosh. I know. I love, I cannot believe it's been almost 10 years. I almost fell outta my chair when you told me that. That's crazy.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah.
Kelly Duggan: Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I absolutely, I could just listen to your career story all day long. This is how I know I'm in the right line of work because I completely geek out hearing about how other people found their way to loving what they do.
Um, so much Shay. So thank you for joining us. But for folks who wanna know more about, uh, silver Ridge or working with you, where can they find you?
Daryl Twitchell: So I'm on LinkedIn, very easy to find me
Can message me, message me there, or, um, on our website, silverridgeadvisors.com. There's a, there's a [00:42:00] form you can just fill out and you can, you know, reach me through that as well. So happy to, uh, talk and share it to more experiences and, you know, go from there.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, and I will include all of that information in the caption of this podcast. So if any of our listeners are looking to connect with you, all they have to do is scroll down. They can click that link to LinkedIn. But Daryl, thank you so much. This was so much fun.
Daryl Twitchell: Yeah,
Kelly Duggan: I.
Daryl Twitchell: enjoyed it too. Thank you, Kelly. I really, really appreciate it.
Kelly Duggan: Of course, I'll talk to you soon.
Daryl Twitchell: Thanks.
Kelly Duggan: Thanks for joining me on today's episode. As always, if you're looking for coaching support or would like to submit a question, you can drop me an email at [email protected]. And if you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review so this podcast can find its way to other amazing listeners just like you.
