Room recording - Jan 22, 2026
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Kelly Duggan: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Love What You Do podcast. I'm Kelly Dugan, former HR executive turn career coach, and I'm here each episode sharing stories and strategies to help you find a career you love.
Welcome back to the podcast everyone. I am so excited about today's guest because this is my first mentor that I had in college. I am so happy to welcome Carl Olivieri here with us today. Carl, welcome to the podcast. Carl is our as. You're, of course Carl's a senior associate Dean of students at Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences, M-C-P-H-S for short.
Um, but Carl, you and I met when I was in college and you were my intro [00:01:00] into the world of Higher Education Administration, which is where I started. My career. So I am so excited to pick your brain today about all things higher ed and really give people some insight into what that career path is. But why don't I hand it it over to you first, just to give us a little bit of background about your career and how you got to where you are today.
Carl: Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me, Kelly. Um, so, um, my career path kind of started when I was in college. I went to undergraduate of Boston College. Um, and you know, my, my freshman year, I, uh, I saw an ad for students who want to get involved in residence hall council, which is basically, um, you know, student activities and like planning events for your, the residence hall that you're living in.
So, um, I ran, I won, I think I was unopposed, so like that was great. Um, and then I did it my, so my junior year, my sophomore and junior year. then for my senior year there was a position on the executive board. So the way the residence hall [00:02:00] council works, Boston College, you have an executive board that oversees all the dormitories in residence halls.
And I ran for vice president and won. Um, so I was in charge of budget maintenance and management and planning long-term events. Um. And, you know, I really had a fun time. And then my junior year I also got involved in the student government association at, at Boston College. Actually it was my sophomore year, so I became a senator, um, and I ran for that and I won. Uh, sophomore my junior year. And then senior year I actually ran for class president. Uh, I came in third place, uh, but I did join the, um, the winning team on their executive board. So I was part of the executive board for the Student Government Association, which at BC was called UGBC, undergraduate Government of Boston College. Um, but I graduated college with a political science major, thinking I was going to law school. And, uh, guess what didn't get in? Um, oh, for
Kelly Duggan: Oh no,
Carl: Oh four 11. [00:03:00] So not even one, one wait list. So, um, uh, I took a job as a high school teacher at my old high school, Malden Catholic. Um, because
Kelly Duggan: I did not know that.
Carl: yeah, in Massachusetts, you don't need a teaching degree to be a private school teacher.
I taught theology because my concentration at BC was theology, which means you take four more classes. My old teacher, uh, was my, my boss. Uh, it was a really cool, interesting first year. Didn't love teaching high school. Um, just the, the students were not, I wasn't passionate about teaching the high school students and teaching was great, but I really kind of like longed for, well, what else can I do in education? Um, and then I went to lunch with my old advisor for Residence Hall Council at Boston College. like, you ever think about going into higher ed? I was like, how do you do that? He's like, well, you gotta get a degree. So I looked [00:04:00] into a program. I, um, I got into the, uh, the higher education program master's at Boston College. did it in a year, 10 months. I fast tracked it, and then I started
Kelly Duggan: Wow.
Carl: I started applying to jobs and that's where I was like, what am I gonna do? Like, what am I good at? Like I have this degree and can I do? And I was applying to everything under their sun. I was applying to academic advising coaches.
I was student activities. I did not do residence life 'cause I knew I did not wanna do residence life. I was an RA for a short time at Boston College um, I didn't love it. And I knew that like I didn't wanna live on campus. I wanted to do something outside the classroom to help students and really educate them and get them excited about being in college. I applied to maybe 20 jobs. I got three interviews and I finally got an interview at this, uh, institution called Lasel College at the time now was LaSalle University, in [00:05:00] Boston, in Newton. Um, minutes up the road from Boston College. even know that school existed and I went to school 10 minutes away. Um,
Kelly Duggan: There are so many schools in the Boston area.
Carl: Uh,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: director of student activities. Applied, got the job, started a week before classes began late August of 2005 and like had no time to, you know, really prep like it was. All right. Orientation's next week, let's go. how I started my path, my, my path to where I am today. I was at Lasel College for about two years. Um, and then, um, I followed my girlfriend at the time to Pennsylvania and moved to lovely northeast pa. Um, I moved to outside of Scranton and I took a job at a community college because I took a job just to get there. And it was in academic advising. [00:06:00] again, you know, it was really cool to see students and working at a community college was, was really eye-opening and really humbling, um, because it's a very different, School that I was used to. Lasell was a four year liberal arts with a fashion design major was their biggest program. know, Boston College is liberal arts, so community college was very different students working full-time jobs. Uh, and it was really a really humbling experience in terms of like, I saw students that I did not really go to school with before and learned a lot about their lives and what they're trying to to. And it was great, but academic advising wasn't for me. So I was there for a short 11 months. Um, I met this woman at, uh, a conference, uh, Amy Pache Woodruff, who was the Dean of students in Marywood, and we were chatting, and then I saw, lo and behold, the director of student activities was available at Marywood. So I shot my shot. I emailed her and I said, I don't know if you remember me, but like [00:07:00] you at a conference. I'm really interested. I have a background in student activities. Would love to be a candidate for your job. Got the job. So, uh, I was a director at, I think I was 27, which is pretty young. Um, but I was ready for the opportunity and I stayed at Marywood where obviously I met you. Um, my
Kelly Duggan: Our paths crossed.
Carl: favorite SGA president, um,
Kelly Duggan: Oh.
Carl: um, still are. And uh, and I know my students will probably see this, but sorry
Kelly Duggan: I was just gonna say that's, those are, those are some big words to put out there. You've had a lot of those.
Carl: I have, I've had, and I was there for four years and, um, it was such a wonderful experience and I got to really run orientation and learn orientation. 'cause I wasn't an orientation leader. Um, I was not a rah rah kind of guy in college. Um, but I learned it, I loved it. I ran the entire, or the entire department from SGA to, [00:08:00] uh, student activities crew.
Is that what we were called?
Kelly Duggan: That is, yes, I think it was crew. It was definitely a C. Mm-hmm.
Carl: Yes.
Kelly Duggan: Yes, yes.
Carl: So I always love that name. Um, and then I, for four years I had the opportunity to meet awesome students. Um, and then I decided to go home and come back to Boston. And, um, again, I was just looking for a job. at Mass College of Pharmacy, there was a position for assistant dean of camp of student activities. And I'm like, well, this is kind of up my alley. Um, dad went to MCP like for a semester, way back in
Kelly Duggan: Small world.
Carl: Yeah. Um, first time being on campus was my interview um, I got the job and it was a very interesting transition because got a job in September. 2012, but you know, it takes time to move.[00:09:00]
Right? So like I wanted to give Amy, who is an amazing mentor and boss, um, one of the best I ever had. She's very supportive. And so I gave like a three month notice and I said, gonna be going home, but I want to, I wanna make sure Mary Woods' in the right place and I want the new person to have time to, to really come on and learn about, um, the school.
So I moved. Got a U-Haul, moved all my belongings on January 2nd and started at MCP on January 3rd, 2013. just celebrated my 13th year here, so
Kelly Duggan: Congratulations.
Carl: yeah, it's been a,
Kelly Duggan: I cannot believe that was 13 years ago. Oh my gosh. That. That's just, we don't bring up such numbers.
Carl: I know it's crazy. Right. Um,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: um, I was assistant dean of, of Campus Law of student Activities. Um, we were student activities, that was our office. And I reorg, I, I renamed the department campus life because it was more than just [00:10:00] activities. You know, we did a lot of educational programs, clubs, and organizations, but we really try to build leaders and give these students experience, 'cause everyone who goes to M-C-P-H-S. Uh, is going to be in health profession. So we have six different program. We have six different programs in the Boston campus and we actually have three campuses. One in Worcester, Massachusetts, and one in Manchester, New Hampshire. Um, the Boston campus where I am located, is the only one that has undergraduate students. Um, so we have students in the school of Pharmacy. We have students who are gonna be four year students who may go to pre-med, and then we have students who are gonna be pharmacy doc, doctor, pharmacy, pharm D. So they get a doctorate when they're like 22, 23. Um, so it's a six year intensive program. We have students in nursing, pa, dental hygiene, so these students are not. You're typical liberal arts students, they're, they're here to get a job. They're very intelligent. Um, so I really enjoy teaching them and having them grow into, know, [00:11:00] upstanding citizens and individuals while I was in campus life. And then, um. I got married 2018 and came back from my mini moon. We went to Vegas for a couple days, my wife, and the day I got back from my mini moon, my boss pulls me into my office and says, yeah, we're moving you to the Dean of students' office and um, we are going to give you a new job. Like the day I got back and I was like, okay. I then moved into the dean of students office in 2018 and. and I have been in the Dean of students' office as a full-time dean since 2018. Um, my title now is Senior Associate Dean of Students. My, my supervisor, the Dean of students, SSAO, senior Student Affairs Officer. Um, we don't have vice president titles at, at our school, so really she's the vp, SA, the Vice President of Student Affairs. Um,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: is Dean of Students, she
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.[00:12:00]
Carl: just changed again in September. It was overseeing our
Kelly Duggan: 2000.
Carl: intervention team, so working with students who are high level, um, students who are experiencing high level mental health, um, and working with 'em to make sure that they're safe and they, they continue on their journey to M-C-P-H-S. So really. Uh, defacto Dean of students in terms of conduct reports to me, residents life reports to me. And now since September, I now oversee the entire Boston Campus Division of Student Affairs. So all departments with the exception of counseling fall under my leadership. Um, so ossa, which is our Office of Student Access and Accommodations Care team, conduct residence life, campus life, uh, and commencement all fall under my leadership. So it has been, uh, it's been quite the ride for the past
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. So for folks who aren't necessarily familiar, uh, with how the inner workings of a college [00:13:00] campus are going behind the scenes, you outlined a few of those departments there that you're overseeing. What other areas are there and how do they interact? With the academic side?
Carl: What other areas? Like in student affairs?
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. In general, just
Carl: Yeah.
Kelly Duggan: in all of college administration, what are we looking at for people who really aren't in the know?
Carl: like three sides of the house, right? You have the student affairs side, which deals with students of the classroom, so helping them. know, engage them when they get here at orientation and helping out with accept students' day, accepted students' days, and open houses. your residents life, your campus lifes will run, orientation usually collaboratively, um, and move in day to really welcome those students. So student affairs is really the ones who are there. For admission to hand off the baton to us and we take it from there. And, you know, we really focus on their growth and their safety and their experience outside the [00:14:00] classroom, um, from day one. Uh, and it's really unique because, you know, now that. Orientation, like I did orientation for years, but it falls under my supervision. I get to welcome students at orientation and then I get to run commencement when they walk across stage. So it is a
Kelly Duggan: Oh, that's fun.
Carl: see parents who I, I saw like four years ago, remember who I am, um, and watch me give that diploma to their kids. Um, so it's a really, a really cool feeling. So student affairs is really. Working with students outside the classroom. So counseling services in Oso, which is formally Disability Support Services. are private, confidential offices that work with students for health and work with providers. So even like, while I won't know exactly what those students are going through, I kind of help them navigate and support in conjunction with those offices to make sure they're safe and that they're supported. then you have the academic side of the house, which is. All of your colleges, right. So we have five colleges [00:15:00] in Boston. We have five in Worcester, and then we have two in Manchester. So all of those have, uh, academic deans. Um, some have university deans that oversee multiple programs. Um, and those are really the programs that we belong to.
Like, for example, the School of Pharmacy, as I mentioned before, you have students in different programs. So we have three programs that are four year based. That students get a degree in four years. And then the pharmacy doctoral program is instruction in the classroom, but it also adds rotations to get experience at hospitals and pharmacies in the area, as well as all over, all over the world where students will earn their doctorate based on their academics in the classroom, but also their experience outside the classroom. So we have, uh, one dean who oversees one, the, the non, the non. Doctoral and one dean that does. So the academic side of the house works and really answers to the provost, who for us is our, our Vice [00:16:00] President of Student Affairs. And for those of you who don't know what a provost is, a provost is basically your number two for the university, uh, who reports directly to the president and then acts as the president if the president cannot act, uh, for whatever reason. Uh, and they are the chief academic officer who oversees all of the academic programs. on that side of the house you have. Academic advising. So for us, it's the Center for Academic Success and Enrichment. We have academic coaches, we have tutors, we have success coaches. They also report to the provost as well, so that those areas will focus on students' instruction and growth inside the classroom. third is the administrative side, right? So it is your student financial services, your registrar, your bursar, which we don't use anymore because that's a term from the seventies, but it's, it's really the business office, right? So. Who's cutting the checks, who's collecting the money, who's collecting tuition?
Where is it all going from to who's overseeing the budget process for the university? Career services sometimes involves [00:17:00] student affairs. In our case it does not. It reports to the provost. Um, but they're kind of a link between student affairs and the academic side. Um,
Kelly Duggan: I've seen it in both sides of the house, depending.
Carl: right?
It
Kelly Duggan: Mm.
Carl: on what side the house is, but we all work very collaboratively. And I guess the fourth part of the house is really the administrative side that's not student facing, right? So your facilities, um, the cleaners of the university who work with facilities management, um, you, the, the grounds crew, um, offices that don't really interact with students public safety, uh, for example, like we have our own public safety on campus. We have two levels. We have sworn officers who are either sworn officers in a town or city of Massachusetts or new or Manchester, New Hampshire, uh, or they are special, um, Massachusetts State Police. So they're able to carry on campus 'cause our officers are able to carry on campus. also have a second level, which is, uh, public [00:18:00] safety staff who, um. Staff, the front desk help with students who, you know, are welcoming to help with situations they do not carry, and they're not sworn officers. So that's really the fourth side of the house. We are a closed campus too. Um, so we're located in Boston in the, in, in the Longwood, uh, district where most of the hospitals in Boston are located, with the exception of one. Um, so we are in the prime area of all healthcare. Um, so we have a close campus where students and faculty have to actually badge in to actually come to campus.
Kelly Duggan: Wow. So there are so many different opportunities to work in a university, and that's one of the things that I find in my coaching when I'm talking with people who are starting to think that. Just as you mentioned, you're like, wait, this university has been up the street for me my whole life and I never paid any attention.
Right. And there's an [00:19:00] entire ecosystem of opportunity on, on that campus, and I think people just aren't aware of all of these different areas and roles that, that you mentioned. Um, for people who are interested in potentially breaking in to work on a campus for the first time. One, is it possible without a degree, and two, what are the first steps to be able to, to start making your way, uh, into those positions?
Carl: Yeah. Um, yeah, so there are a lot of ways, and I didn't even mention like communications is, or it, you know, I, we call it informational services. It is also the side, the fourth side of the house that's not really student facing. So. You know, you, the way I look at it is we're a corporation, right?
Higher education universities are corporations that have multiple levels and multiple opportunities for people to get involved. And you may never actually even work with a student, right? And that's okay [00:20:00] because we do have people that do that. Um, for degrees, it depends on the job. I would say for student affairs, uh, a bachelor's degree is usually required, um, depending on what job that you are trying to get. Um. That's not always the case for other, other careers. Um, like student financial services, uh, I believe some of them have a bachelor's preferred. Um, but it's really for those jobs, it's also what experience have you had in, in, outside of the corporate world that can translate into the university level?
Right? So have you worked accounts payable? Like have you worked in, like what kind of marketing have you done? Like my wife, for example, works in marketing communication for a law firm. She doesn't have a law degree. But she has the experience working in marketing to translate into and be successful in that company.
So really what you bring to the table in terms of experience. Obviously, you know, degrees, especially in higher ed, the higher that you climb the ladder, the more that's [00:21:00] probably asked of you, but it's not always the case. Um, so it's
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: your experience and what you can bring to the job that's posted, that's gonna get you the job.
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm. And how do people even learn what's available on a college campus? Like do most schools have career boards just like a corporation would? Um, how does that work?
Carl: Yeah, so we, we have our website obviously, that you can look at and job opportunities. We also partner with LinkedIn, so we'll put jobs on LinkedIn. Um, for student affairs jobs, we usually post on, uh, higher ed jobs.com. Um, sometimes student affairs jobs.com. Um, student affairs jobs is kind of a subsidiary of higher ed jobs.com, so you're gonna get the same thing. in student affairs, you focus on student affairs. Higher ed jobs.com is really where I would tell people to look because that is where all jobs are gonna be posted. That's where non-student facing corporate jobs or corporate like jobs are going to be posted. [00:22:00] we also sometimes work with outside. Consultants that will post, you know, for a small fee, they will post it on their website. Um, so depending on what the job is, it's really those kind of avenues that we try to, to utilize.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, I know. I, I remember higher ed jobs.com very fondly from when I was in that world of, um, even for internships, like so much opportunity.
Carl: Yep.
Kelly Duggan: there.
Carl: there's tons of opportunity.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. So obviously you have the sweet spot of working with students in Canvas life, student life, in being dean of students
Carl: Hmm.
Kelly Duggan: de facto right now. Why did you pick that path of all of these potential available paths within the higher ed world, and what do you love about it?
Carl: I picked the student activities route because it's the only job I got. Right. Like, and that's just being honest. Like, I needed a job. Um, I stayed in it because I [00:23:00] loved what I did. And um, you know, I was, when I was in college, I was at bc, the RHA, like, it was more like programming than anything. And like, you know, we
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Carl: I remember my first big event was a university-wide barbecue in the spring and we called it Spring Fest. And we rented, you know, drums of, uh, you know, old oil drums, whatever it is. We put charcoal in it and we cooked food ourselves, which back in the early two thousands probably was okay. But now it's like, you know, we didn't have clubs. Like no one was
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: was gonna blow the university up with a campfire. Um, it was
Kelly Duggan: Do you have a permit? Yeah.
Carl: was, I don't even, I, I don't even know if I did. Um. mean, it was on, it was on college property, so we probably did. Um, but
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: first big event. And like, I remember my, my roommates and my friends coming and said, wow, this was really fun. And I'm like, yeah, it was really fun.
And so like, that's when my passion really grew. [00:24:00] um, when I was at LaSelle, like I, there was a staff of two, it was the director and me and my director. At the time in Marie Kenny is still one of my closest friends. Um, and she challenged me in a way that no one ever has. And it was good. Like I needed a reality check, right?
Because I came in like, yeah, you come in, you're 24, you kind of have a hot shot. And it's like, I can do this. And like, it's hard like trying to convince an 18 and 18-year-old to do this, and like, now you're their boss. But you're only five years older than them, like you were just in their spot four years ago. So for me, it was a reality check of like, okay, I need to mature myself very quick to gain the respect. Because I think the biggest misconception among young professionals that we can get into this later is. The respect factor is like people demand respect, but it's, you need to earn it and you need to meet the students where they are, but [00:25:00] also level yourself up where you're a mentor to teach them what is best and let them make decisions that they're comfortable with. Um, and so that year and a half was really eye-opening for me. Um, and when the Marywood job came up, like there was no question I wanted to continue this and I wanted the chance to. Run my own ship and it was, talk about humbling. Kelly, you were there right? Like first month. My SGA wanted to get rid of me because I came in and wanted to, um. things up because I didn't think the ways things were going were the best for the university and the best for me. Right. But it's not a, the professional needs to adapt to the surroundings just as much as the surrounding needs to adapt to the professional. So that was a hard lesson I learned in respect and, you know, respecting what's been done before you, uh, because
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Carl: [00:26:00] traditionalist and, and at some point. Someone's gonna take my job. Actually, someone does have my old job and they've had it since September. So like I've had to sit back and let them make decisions knowing like, oh, I may not have done it this way. And that's why you have one-on-ones and that's why you have debriefs. Um, but I chose student activities and stay with it because I loved seeing students have fun. And more importantly, I love seeing what they become after college. Um, and at Marywood more than any other school, I would probably say I still have the strongest connections with people like you who I've seen grow and become. You know, bombs and successful people in the corporate world, and some even go into higher ed. And, uh, to me, like that's the biggest reward.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, I know think that you were 27 when I was a freshman is crazy.
Carl: Wild.
Kelly Duggan: That is wild because you [00:27:00] were like the iest of adults in my mind at the time, and it's just Yeah, I know, I know. But it goes to show about how you carry yourself, right? And how you set yourself up to have that separation. Um, and I love the term that you used of like being a mentor, um, because I think that really, that is the difference.
I you when. I haven't really shared very much on the podcast yet, but you know, I, you convinced me to go into higher ed. Uh, that was the first step in my career path after going. To undergrad. Yeah, very much so. Um, and I remember having this aha moment of like, wait, this is a job. Like this is a job that people can do.
And even though there are tons of people who go to colleges and universities, I think there's a lot of people who don't realize that like, wait a minute, this, there's this whole realm of opportunity here that. We, [00:28:00] you don't necessarily open yourself, uh, up to, but when I was a graduate assistant and, um, working in the career center and giving career, doing career coaching, you know, right off the bat, my first year of grad school, when.
Six months ago I had been needing career coaching. Right. Like it is, it's such a mindset shift of Okay. Um, and I do find it's, it's really about, it's not about age at all, it, but it's about experience and skillset and, and what I love about coaching even now is it's not. Professional and person who needs help, it's two equals,
Carl: Yep.
Kelly Duggan: but it's how you utilize the skills of coaching to be able to help people get what they want.
Just as you shared. And I think so much of what I do now, I has grown out of my experience with higher ed even going all the way back to Marywood, you know, and that's one of the things that I really do love and I'd [00:29:00] love your perspective on of, you know, working in student life, campus life. You shared earlier on in the conversation about like wanting to create leaders and personally, I think my biggest takeaway from my entire undergrad experience was everything I got out of student life, student activities, being an SGA, you know, doing orientation, you.
Those experience prepared me more for what helped me be successful in higher ed and in corporate life, and now in my own business than any class that I went to. It not nothing against my amazing professors and, and I've loved my education, but when it comes to kind of those real world skills.
Carl: Yep.
Kelly Duggan: are what I took away and I think why we're still close.
Right? Because that was such an impactful part in my life. So how, how do you feel you are shaping that experience for students? Um, [00:30:00] and, and what are some of the hallmarks of that that you're intentionally building in, in what you do?
Carl: Yeah, I think it's, um, it's very different now post COVID than it was before COVID, um,
Kelly Duggan: I didn't even think about that.
Carl: For a whole year, especially like, you know, residents life fall fell under my leadership during COVID and we went from, Hey, you gotta vacate the buildings. And you know, we never closed as an institution, so we were always in the office, but like all of our student activities is now online.
And it's like, I mean, it was a very odd world for about a year. Right. Um, but we decided to open up, um, full. when it came to Residence Life, students can live on campus, but we, we didn't allow them to have roommates. And it wasn't because we didn't want them to, like, we still did not know. I mean, as, you know, like
Kelly Duggan: If it was safe, yeah.
Carl: right?
Like, so like we still had to, our university had to wear masks on campus for two years and [00:31:00] we required testing twice a week, right? So we did not know what it was gonna be like when you lived with someone and like. Are we gonna have an outbreak? What's that gonna look like? So students came back, but they lived by themselves. year after that, now it's, you have these students who never had a roommate before who their last year of high school was cut short. They didn't have prom, right? They didn't get a chance to go on a senior week event excursion. And now we're asking 'em to come back to reality and come back to normal and, um. It just very, it was very, very different. It was different from my staff too, because they weren't planning programs for like a year in person. Um, but it's really those life skills of like that still to this day is the biggest struggle with students. Like the amount of roommate conflicts and room requests changes the amount of parents that call up because they're upset about their students getting into an argument or their [00:32:00] student doesn't like the residence hall they're living in. So much higher now than it was before COVID. Because these
Kelly Duggan: Wow.
Carl: it's a different world, right? Like parents are very involved and parents should be most likely. And not all the cases. Yeah. Parents are paying the tuition most of the time. Um, we do have a lot of students who pay their own way.
Um, but it's working with those students to try to like, hey, or having a meeting with a student, can my mom join? No, can't join because I can't tell your mom the fact that you vandalized property. Um, because they don't really need to know. You can tell them. Right. But like, it's not my job to tell them that. Um, I know we're kind of going off a little bit, but like, it's just, I think for me, as in my job now and for all my staff, I try to teach my, my staff to meet students where they are, but also lead them down a path that's gonna help them be successful and [00:33:00] become better. Whatever they need, right? Whether it's planning a program and filling out a program proposal and like what's needed and walking 'em through the stuff, the process.
Because I mean, you know how to run, you know how to run a program, Kelly, you know why? Because I taught you right? And
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: that's what we have to do now. And I think that like the handholding and the step-by-step process. More so now than anything. So we have revved up our trainings for students to give them the tools they need to be better. Um, but on the dean side, I mean, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with students where I've had to like feed the students a question or an answer or like rip it out of their mouth because they just don't know how to answer. Um, and it's not their fault. It's just the way that they life.
And for a lot of students. You know, college is a, is a welcome, is a, is a, is is welcoming, but a reality check, right? Mom's not gonna do your [00:34:00] laundry at, at school. Mom is not gonna contact your faculty member. Let me, let me push back. Mom will try to contact their faculty, but faculty's not gonna care, I'll absolutely talk to any parent they want, but like, I am limited because of ferpa of what I can and can't do. But also. It's not my place to tell you. Right? Like, I'm not your child. You have to have those honest conversations with your students.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, that is, that is crazy and definitely was not as prevalent when I was in higher ed, I think as it is today. Um,
Carl: it's,
Kelly Duggan: it.
Carl: it wasn't.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, crazy. I didn't even, I didn't even think about that point. And then it, it introduces a whole level of complexity on the professional side to your point of, you know, who is your client, for lack of a better word,
Carl: Yeah,
Kelly Duggan: in that, you know, like, who are you, you're, you're there to be [00:35:00] the advocate for the student, but also you're managing all these other stakeholders.
And I'm sure that can be
Carl: Yeah,
Kelly Duggan: tricky at best.
Carl: Stakeholders, that's a whole different conversation, right? Um, my client's, the students, Like, and that's
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: to, because we are also in the business of keeping and retaining students. So my job is to make sure students are welcome here and that they're successful. But sometimes this isn't the place for you, So for, you know, for years, part of my job. Before I just kind of changed into more of a supervisory role. I was working with students who take leave of absences from medical situations or students who experienced a medical crisis that required a hospitalization, mostly mental health. So my job was really working with them and the parents at times on whether this is the right place for you right now.
So is it best to take a leave of absence? really M-C-P-H-S the best place for you? Right now, [00:36:00] right. Um, we have to have those hard conversations and every year we have students leave, uh, who take a leave of absence. And every year we have students just leave and don't come back. And that's the hard part of the job because you want to help everyone. You want to make sure everyone stays and graduates. That's not always the case. And sometimes in my job, I need to do what's best for the student. it's best for them not to be here because if
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: they're continuing down a path that they're not gonna graduate, their grades aren't great, their mental health might be detrimental that they're, they're never gonna be able to focus on themselves and grow as a person. don't want them here and keep spending tuition money where they're not gonna graduate. Um, and that is the hardest part of my job.
Kelly Duggan: It is, especially 'cause it's a moment in time. I mean, I think you and I both have careers that could attest to the fluidity of.
Carl: Mm-hmm.
Kelly Duggan: The future, right? Like I'm a big believer in [00:37:00] even things that feel like step setbacks in the moment are opening doors for you later on down the line. And so for you to share it is what's best in the moment for them not to be there, even though that might feel in every fiber of their being in the moment, like a failure, a setback, a a step back.
It could be
Carl: Mm-hmm.
Kelly Duggan: saving them financially, but also with their mental health, but also opening up a door for them that nobody can foresee at that point. Um, and yeah, I think that especially working with college age population, that's one of the things that I try to instill even now in career coaching clients of.
How every decision that you make in your career, you're only making a decision for that point in time.
Carl: Mm-hmm.
Kelly Duggan: are not making a decision from now till retirement, even though it feels like it.
Carl: Right, and that's the hardest part is like, well, I need to be a pharmacist. No, you don't.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: don't have to, like, I wanna go to law school. [00:38:00] I didn't take
Kelly Duggan: Yep.
Carl: And that was, that was a
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: pill to swallow. Um, it's, everyone's gonna find themselves right, and it's,
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: you said, like it's, it's helping the student realize like what's ahead of them and what can be, a
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: are legacy students, well, whose parents are pharmacists who went to MCP and there's so much pressure. on our, our international students. So our international population is 12%, which is very high, um,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: Um, we have a lot of students whose families come from a health science background, and there's a shame associated with the student if they can't live up to their family expectations. So it's managing that and helping them realize and managing, and I can't tell you how many times I've talked to parents and I was like, well. They really wanna be a pharmacist and the kid is sitting, right, the student's right next to 'em saying, don't wanna do this anymore. You know, and that,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: and that's kind of [00:39:00] like a oof, right? And it's like,
Kelly Duggan: Hmm.
Carl: like, why am I in the room for this conversation? This should have happened yesterday without me, but like, that's my job.
Right? It's sometimes helping the
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: Your student doesn't want to do this, right?
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: can't do this right now. Right? Like when you get to certain programs and you get to certain years, if you don't have a certain GPA, you're up for dismissal. Like this is not like you can just, you can change majors, but if you are not getting the GPA that's required, you can't be. A nurse, you can't be a pharmacist, you can't be a pa and as much as you want it, there are some things that like wanting is not enough. I think those are the tough conversations that I have.
Kelly Duggan: Those are incredibly tough conversations. I, and, and truly those moments will come up so many times throughout a career, right? Of, [00:40:00] you know, I, I really, I really want this job, but I have to move to California for it, and I'm not gonna move to California, and now I need a, a new path, right? My last question that I have for you is for people who are in a time of career crisis and or just wanting a change, maybe they're in a very traditional corporate role and this is the first time that they've ever heard about higher ed jobs or ever really let themselves think about it.
What is one small step they can take? Now to begin preparing themselves for a possible career in, in that world. And, and maybe there's a few answers to that 'cause as we talked about, there's so many different potential paths.
Carl: First thing I would say is find someone who works in that field and talks them have
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: Go to dinner. 'em the questions. Ask 'em what they're, that's what I did. Right?
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: that's, I, I had someone and it came up in a, in a lunch that had [00:41:00] no intention of like about higher ed. Like, um, I would recommend talking to someone in the field. talk about what it's like, right? Every institution is different. MCP is very different than Mary Wood, which is very different than Luer County Community College, which was very different than Lasell. What they all have in common is you are all student. My job is all student facing, right? So no matter what you do, you're gonna be dealing with students, and students are going to. different everywhere you go. My students now are not liberal arts students. Right? They are. They love to study. Like ironic, like luckily our conduct has very, very little in terms of alcohol violations, parties, like those, those aren't my kind of, those aren't my kids. My students study on the weekends.
My students study every night. Um. That's not what it was like at other [00:42:00] schools I've been at. You know, like, not
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: was a big party school, but like, it wasn't a study school, Like, um, depending on the program, unless you were in architecture, which is, you know, wild to how that program has really taken off, which is great.
Kelly Duggan: I know.
Carl: but it's really like expecting what, if you're working, if you wanna work in the student affairs side, you need to talk to someone who works with students and what they do. If you don't wanna work on student facing, but you want to take a look at, okay, is higher ed for me? Like, what are the benefits?
What is it like? I think still try to talk to someone, but the school, know, research, how long have they been around for? What programs do they offer? Right? Email people, like randomly email and say, Hey, I, I came across your information. I'm looking to go into the field. You'd be surprised how many people are willing to talk to you, And like, in a good way.
Kelly Duggan: Particularly in higher ed. It, and I think for people
Carl: higher ed.
Kelly Duggan: coming from the, from a corporate background, [00:43:00] probably underestimate the. Willing to helpness that exists on the higher ed side. It it's a totally different world.
Carl: It
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: it's like it's because no matter what area you work in higher ed, you're gonna collaborate with people who are not in your area. Right?
Kelly Duggan: Mm-hmm.
Carl: I work with people in student financial services all the time. I work with people in is I. Have worked with every department on campus, and I have built relationships in 13 years that I'm proud of where I can text someone, ask 'em something and it's done right, or they can ask a favor of me or like, let's collaborate on something.
I need your advice. People who work in student affairs like to work with others, right? If you want a, a cubby job, uh, or, or an office job. By yourself working at a computer screen. Higher ed's probably not for you. Are there jobs like our marketing team is most mostly remote now, right? But they're still working with admission.
They're still working [00:44:00] with us to showcase the university and try to appease those people who we want to come here. So there is still some level of human interaction, um, and I think that's the, the biggest part. But yes, you'd be surprised when people wanna talk to you about like what they do.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah, a hundred percent. And the other piece of advice I'd share,
Carl: yeah. And I do have
Kelly Duggan: yeah.
Carl: too. Like
Kelly Duggan: Yes, please.
Carl: there is tons of conferences, um,
Kelly Duggan: Oh yes.
Carl: Okay. So you have naspa, the National Association of Student Affairs Professional, which is the biggest for Student Affairs Professional. Um, and then every department their own. Like, uh, student activities has naca, national Association of Campus Activities, boards and NoDa, national Association of Orientation Directors. Um, marketing has organizations. They belong to financial services. Everybody has something right? Go as an attend.[00:45:00]
Kelly Duggan: So,
Carl: people, see what they have because you know what they have at those. They have job postings and they have, most of those places will have onsite job interviews. Okay. We call it the placement exchange, where um, we are able to showcase a job that we are, we are advertising. It will either do on the spot interviews mostly for graduate students, but we'll have representatives there to talk about the job and learn more about the institution and that is probably. The best well-rounded experience you could get is by going to see people who do it every single day everyone's there for a reason, They'll talk to you, 'em a coffee.
Kelly Duggan: The networking alone. I mean, that's hugely beneficial. Uh, and it's a great way to just understand what the job is by like going to some sessions really just. Immersing yourself, um, in that world. And the other thing that I would mention to folks, if you're nervous about cold [00:46:00] reaching out to people, if you went to undergrad, re start with your alma mater.
Like st. Even if you have zero connections left, people love to help alumni.
Carl: Yep.
Kelly Duggan: so reach out. Yeah.
Carl: and I
Kelly Duggan: Um, start with your alumni group.
Carl: I think like I didn't have LinkedIn right when I was
Kelly Duggan: Mm.
Carl: for
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: like on LinkedIn. DM someone. You'd be surprised how many people would respond back to you.
Kelly Duggan: Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Carl, thank you so much. This was awesome. I really appreciate you sharing your story and I'm just so glad that we got to catch up a little bit. This is, this was wonderful. Where can people
Carl: pleasure.
Kelly Duggan: connect with you if they have, if they, if, if they are interested in attending M-C-P-H-S?
If they have a question for you after this podcast, how can people get ahold of you? Are you on LinkedIn?
Carl: Ah, of course I'm on LinkedIn.
Kelly Duggan: There we go.
Carl: I'm on LinkedIn. I have to actually look at my username because [00:47:00] I forget it. Um, yeah, so, uh, you can also go to mcps.edu. You can search me the directory, my e my work email is there. Um, yep. I'm on LinkedIn. Kyle Ri, uh, PhD. Um, that is my official LinkedIn profile because. I had to put that out there. So,
Kelly Duggan: Yeah.
Carl: I, um, and I think, you know, those two are probably the best. Um, email is, I don't wanna say it's always on, I'm always checking email. Right. Uh, I think that's the two best ways, uh, to reach out to me. Um, and I'll be happy to, you know, talk to you and shoot you a text. We can zoom whatever, and that's what like. COVID is, is as horrible as it was, really gave us the opportunity to connect with people like you and I are doing, um, through, through, um, through interaction on the computer. So happy to do that. Happy to set that up.
Kelly Duggan: Carl, I will talk [00:48:00] to you very soon. Thank you so much for being here, and thanks for joining the podcast today.
